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andy_ppp 10 hours ago [-]
Usually I like Apple’s OS updates but Tahoe is absolutely awful from the glass to the noddy sizing of everything. MacOS does not have to harmonise with VisionOS at all and it’s been a disaster for macOS to try.
thewhitetulip 27 minutes ago [-]
My Tahoe issue was that when I shared screen with zoom I used to have some weird bug where the screenshare had issues. It was fixed in the last 2 updates. Either a tahoe issue or a zoom issue but you'd think that they'd have a beta program to fix such issues in the testing phase.
reddalo 9 hours ago [-]
I agree. Tahoe is disgustingly unusable; I'm happy that Alan Dye left Apple.
I hope Apple will backtrack on Liquid Glass after Tahoe. Otherwise, I'll just switch to Linux.
radicaldreamer 8 hours ago [-]
They will likely tweak it but very unlikely that they’ll remove it altogether, especially with the upcoming touch screen MacBook Pro.
Companies like Apple typically don’t make reversals quickly (the butterfly keyboard took years to remedy).
mhurron 7 hours ago [-]
They'll do what they always do, it'll be the greatest thing ever just getting minor tweaks for 3-4 releases and then will be superseded by the greatest thing ever.
Forgeties79 5 hours ago [-]
Just swap to Linux if you don’t have a true reason to stay on Mac. I flipped last April and man, it is wonderful. Bazzite boot, no windows partition or anything. It just works.
Plus I have a 2016 MBpro I keep around in case I absolutely need a Mac (rare). Usually it’s an old drive formatted for Mac and I don’t feel like futzing around with software that allows it to read on my main computer.
Synaesthesia 7 hours ago [-]
I don't know, I always see this pattern with iOS or MacOS releases. Everyone piles on at the time.
I've actually quite enjoyed some design changes in Tahoe, and looking at older versions of MacOS just looks old fashioned once you're used to them.
hbn 4 hours ago [-]
Almost every update I'm skeptical at first and then after a while I see a screenshot of the old UI and think "how did I ever use that?"
Tahoe I've been using since it came out and every time I see a screenshot of prior versions I think "wow it used to look so much better"
spijdar 4 hours ago [-]
I'm sure this is true, and that there will always be a (likely disproportionately) loud group of complainers, many of whom will forget about their complaints. I haven't really publicly complained about Tahoe before, and I don't intend on whining about it again. But...
It's fine. I'm not going to rail about how it's unusable, or say that it makes me want to gouge out my eyes, or whatever. But it's enough to dissuade me from ever wanting to buy another Mac, if I have the option of using a desktop Linux system.
That's a pretty big caveat. But those curved window borders and the rounded widgets in e.g. the settings menu are kind of awful. Not unusable. But every time I open a terminal and I deal with the choice of either having obscene padding around my content or seeing a few pixels of my prompt's corners shaved off, I get just a little more irritated, and a little less likely to pick up my Macbook the next time I'm deciding which device to use.
brailsafe 2 hours ago [-]
Good UI for tools, physical or digitial, should reduce the friction between picking it up and using it for something, that's the problem at the core of design. With the small caveat that sometimes technically good but perhaps unethical design solves stupid business problems well, like deliberately making chairs uncomfortable to keep traffic moving through a busy cafe, or making anti-homeless benches, design should not dissuade you from using something you purchased to solve other problems; it's unprincipled.
harha 2 hours ago [-]
I got a Mac mini and was very positively surprised that it still ran the older version. I can use the size setting I'm comfortable with in the display menu. When I use Tahoe, I need to make the setting smaller to have a reasonable amount of apps open, but then it's uncomfortable to read.
orion7 5 hours ago [-]
I use Linux at home and MacOS at work; I am quite fond of every visual change in Tahoe with sole the exception of the obscenely large radius rounded window corners which make no sense on a rectangular screen and make resizing windows a relatively slow and arduous task. I really wish they could be disabled.
m463 4 hours ago [-]
arguably rounded corners have been an apple brand-image thing for a long time, like the icons on ios.
I just want brushed metal Aqua with Lucida Grande back. Seems to be too much to ask for.
neom 9 hours ago [-]
I was really happy when they added the pictures! Dyslexia, the icons are 100% faster for me, I don't use those menus often enough to know what is in there word wise, but I can read the icons super fast.
nopakos 10 minutes ago [-]
So it should be an accessibility setting. I don't care if the default is on or off.
cosmotic 8 hours ago [-]
How can you read the icons if they mean different things in different apps?
LeoPanthera 7 hours ago [-]
Can you provide some examples of this? In my experience, they're quite consistent.
A lot of the examples in here, I can't find? Like, I looked around for the new smart folder with the cog icon, where is it on my mac? Same with save as check, where is that? Also I'm pretty sure (although I can't find it) the save as with the up arrow is save as out to something? The ones I do find, all make perfect sense and work pretty well for me, they're not totally perfect but I'd never thought about them much before this post and I use them almost exclusively. Look at all his new for example, see new finder window? Look at the box around it, then open your window menu at the top of your screen, see how minimize has the same box around it? If you go though those icons set, most of them have: primary, secondary and sometimes tertiary visual clues. I dunno, I read that blog post and it doesn't really jive with me. I'm sure they could stand to clean it up a bit, I don't know I'm not a designer, but I'm certainly glad they are there!!! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
arm 5 hours ago [-]
New Smart Folder with a cogwheel icon is in the File menu of Notes.app, while New Smart Folder with a folder+cogwheel icon is in the File menu of Finder.app.
neom 5 hours ago [-]
Thanks! I don't use the notes app, cog is not the best icon for that but I suppose it's differentiated from the file system version, if I read them both the same I might be confused, but not sure why they selected cog!!!
garbagewoman 2 hours ago [-]
Yeah should be an accessibility setting for the few users who need it
The later examples are pretty wild, 3 different ‘minimize’ icons? Why? Different teams?
Gagarin1917 1 hours ago [-]
It shouldn’t even be just you and others with dyslexia either.
Processing images is always faster than processing text for everyone.
steve_adams_86 42 minutes ago [-]
I would argue this is only true when the image is apt. In Tahoe I don't think this is always true. The lack of consistency in layout and presence of icons is also visually difficult to process. The signal to noise ratio of the icon gutter is very poor.
I like it in theory but the execution seems more harmful than helpful so far. If I'm wrong and it's helping some people, that's great.
elgrantomate 2 hours ago [-]
"apps will respect this change after relaunching" ...? I'm not seeing that happen. restart required?
masswerk 1 hours ago [-]
I guess, this means logging out as the current user and logging in again, so that the various services are relaunched with changed settings.
VimEscapeArtist 7 hours ago [-]
No screenshot? Dunno what’s all about. What menu?
seidoger 5 hours ago [-]
Yeah, I was wondering (I haven't updated, patiently waiting for the next major). But here's a great piece about them: https://tonsky.me/blog/tahoe-icons/
xoxxala 9 hours ago [-]
Oh, thank you for posting this. Just ran the Terminal command and it’s a vast improvement.
JSR_FDED 5 hours ago [-]
Currently I’m blocking the Tahoe updates with Little Snitch. If that becomes untenable I’ll just run Sequoia in a VM.
AnonC 1 hours ago [-]
I’d like to know what rules you use to prevent Tahoe updates while allowing Sequoia updates. It would be quite useful to me, and I guess, to others here who use Little Snitch.
mrtesthah 31 minutes ago [-]
Just enable the Sequoia developer/beta channel. You won’t see other updates then.
testing22321 5 hours ago [-]
I setup a do not disturb to run all day everyday. I have not had a notification to update to Tahoe in over a month.
mholm 5 hours ago [-]
I don't even have any special handling set and haven't had any Tahoe prompts beyond maybe the first one. I often forget that I'm not on the latest anymore.
zahirbmirza 9 hours ago [-]
I still miss launchpad.
Which is made worse by the fact the spotlight has become terrible.
Safari is unusable due to some weird sync that happens whenever I open a new window ( i dont use tabs) and adding bookmarks takes about 10-15 seconds.
Please Apple, help? Apple seem to have lost their cultish drive to satisfy UI obsessive like me who often didn't even know what we wanted until they gave it to us. Now, we know what we want, but Apple can't give it to us.
Now that Dye is gone, I still hold out hope that Apple will change direction and start fixing their UI. But that fact that it got this bad in the first place implies things are seriously broken at a senior leadership level.
saagarjha 2 hours ago [-]
What makes you think that things aren't bad under him?
john_alan 10 hours ago [-]
Great now just need the same for the window corners and ridiculous Finder overlays.
0xFEE1DEAD 10 hours ago [-]
Exactly.
I blame apple for making me run an old macOS version because I don't want to look at this ugly mess they've created.
I've been running macOS since 2008, and unless they manage to turn things around, my next laptop won't be an apple.
reddalo 9 hours ago [-]
I agree. I also tried Tahoe, and reverted back to Sequoia right away.
Either Apple is going to turn things around, or I'm done with Apple for good.
username223 2 hours ago [-]
> unless they manage to turn things around, my next laptop won't be an apple.
Meh. I ran Linux on a PowerBook back in the day, because Apple made the best hardware and behind-the-times software, before deciding that Mac OS X was "Unix with decent office software" and wholesale switching. I'm fine going back to FVWM on a MacBook if macOS 27 is as bad as 26.
Razengan 58 minutes ago [-]
> I really dislike Apple’s choice to clutter macOS Tahoe’s menus with icons.
> It makes menus hard to scan
I disagree, I like them, and I'm glad there's an option
With billions of users, it doesn't make sense to offer just one style for everything for everyone, like all the OSes are these days. Hell the Switch and Switch 2 still doesn't have much options beyond Bright/Dark mode.
The only actual solution is customizability; let users fuck themselves up however they want, but always leave a quick "Reset to Defaults" panic button within reach :)
9 hours ago [-]
theturtle 8 hours ago [-]
[dead]
nsxwolf 3 hours ago [-]
I never noticed the icons were even there until I read this.
chkhd 6 hours ago [-]
After a good decade of Mac Tahoe made me go back to Linux + tiling WM for my main machine. I just could not stand the awful mess anymore.
Result? inner peace. It is so calm here, and everything is so familiar and fast.
And the MBP hardware seems to be getting shittier too :/ have trackpad issues on both my latest personal and work M4 MBPs.
thenthenthen 1 hours ago [-]
Window management on OSX/macOS cost me so much time of my life, still the hardware and overall experience is pretty nice.
jayrot 5 hours ago [-]
I strongly disagree. Tahoe is horrible but Mac hardware is terrific. Have you seen a Neo?
I think Apple is hitting it out of the park (falling behind in many other areas)
gib444 2 hours ago [-]
They're referring to reliability btw
dawnerd 10 hours ago [-]
There's actually a built in way to remove them in settings. System Settings -> Menu Bar.
You can uncheck or drag items around in the menu bar and group some inside of the menu bar control (and even create new menu bar controls).
I wish you could add third party apps to them, maybe that'll be next. But it's nice you can hide any apps icon right there.
k2enemy 10 hours ago [-]
This is for the icons in the drop-down menus, not the icons in the menu bar.
I hope Apple will backtrack on Liquid Glass after Tahoe. Otherwise, I'll just switch to Linux.
Companies like Apple typically don’t make reversals quickly (the butterfly keyboard took years to remedy).
Plus I have a 2016 MBpro I keep around in case I absolutely need a Mac (rare). Usually it’s an old drive formatted for Mac and I don’t feel like futzing around with software that allows it to read on my main computer.
I've actually quite enjoyed some design changes in Tahoe, and looking at older versions of MacOS just looks old fashioned once you're used to them.
Tahoe I've been using since it came out and every time I see a screenshot of prior versions I think "wow it used to look so much better"
It's fine. I'm not going to rail about how it's unusable, or say that it makes me want to gouge out my eyes, or whatever. But it's enough to dissuade me from ever wanting to buy another Mac, if I have the option of using a desktop Linux system.
That's a pretty big caveat. But those curved window borders and the rounded widgets in e.g. the settings menu are kind of awful. Not unusable. But every time I open a terminal and I deal with the choice of either having obscene padding around my content or seeing a few pixels of my prompt's corners shaved off, I get just a little more irritated, and a little less likely to pick up my Macbook the next time I'm deciding which device to use.
I kind of wonder if this is like overdoing your watch logo stuff like in this article: https://paulgraham.com/brandage.html
Processing images is always faster than processing text for everyone.
I like it in theory but the execution seems more harmful than helpful so far. If I'm wrong and it's helping some people, that's great.
Safari is unusable due to some weird sync that happens whenever I open a new window ( i dont use tabs) and adding bookmarks takes about 10-15 seconds.
Please Apple, help? Apple seem to have lost their cultish drive to satisfy UI obsessive like me who often didn't even know what we wanted until they gave it to us. Now, we know what we want, but Apple can't give it to us.
It's hard to justify Tahoe icons
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46497712
Now that Dye is gone, I still hold out hope that Apple will change direction and start fixing their UI. But that fact that it got this bad in the first place implies things are seriously broken at a senior leadership level.
I blame apple for making me run an old macOS version because I don't want to look at this ugly mess they've created. I've been running macOS since 2008, and unless they manage to turn things around, my next laptop won't be an apple.
Either Apple is going to turn things around, or I'm done with Apple for good.
Meh. I ran Linux on a PowerBook back in the day, because Apple made the best hardware and behind-the-times software, before deciding that Mac OS X was "Unix with decent office software" and wholesale switching. I'm fine going back to FVWM on a MacBook if macOS 27 is as bad as 26.
> It makes menus hard to scan
I disagree, I like them, and I'm glad there's an option
With billions of users, it doesn't make sense to offer just one style for everything for everyone, like all the OSes are these days. Hell the Switch and Switch 2 still doesn't have much options beyond Bright/Dark mode.
The only actual solution is customizability; let users fuck themselves up however they want, but always leave a quick "Reset to Defaults" panic button within reach :)
Result? inner peace. It is so calm here, and everything is so familiar and fast.
And the MBP hardware seems to be getting shittier too :/ have trackpad issues on both my latest personal and work M4 MBPs.
I think Apple is hitting it out of the park (falling behind in many other areas)
You can uncheck or drag items around in the menu bar and group some inside of the menu bar control (and even create new menu bar controls).
I wish you could add third party apps to them, maybe that'll be next. But it's nice you can hide any apps icon right there.